Entropy

Relax in southern comfort on the east bank of the Mississippi. You're just around the corner from Beale Street and Sun Records. Watch the ducks, throw back a few and tell us what's on your mind.
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JR.
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Re: Entropy

Post by JR. » Sat Aug 04, 2018 10:52 am

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I may need to rename this thread to reflect the rash of disposal vs repairs.

The most recent failure is premature, and has already been replaced by the vendor I bought it from... but still disappointing.

This is not my first disappointment from this particular manufacturer. They have a good eye for design, and good features/performance, but often drop the ball in execution.

In this case the spring that holds the valve actuation lever up and closed failed. Typical bottle washer use water pressure to hold the valve closed which makes a mess when water pressure is low, like every time you use it. This is a superior design when working but my spring broke after just 6 months in use.

I already have the manufacturer in my email from a different product issue. They told me no repair springs are available and they have already improved the spring specification from 8,000 cycles to 13,000 cycles, but mine clearly failed sooner than 8,000.

I suggested they change the design to use a simple spring in compression to hold the valve closed, and I may try that myself. It doesn't look as pretty as their design, but will be harder to kill. Their spring has a concentration of torque and fatigue on a single segment of the spring (each side). But with one side broken there is not enough force to hold the valve closed, and the spring slips down.

While this may not be a design issue per se, but inferior metallurgy/tempering by a chinese spring vendor, but why it failed doesn't matter to me with my customer hat on. :oops:

JR

[edit] two different rate springs on order from mcmaster carr, so we'll see if I can redesign this to be JR proof. [/edit]

emrr
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Re: Entropy

Post by emrr » Sat Aug 04, 2018 12:01 pm

I've already blocked the plumbing problem.....

Leak in the chase from basement to 2nd floor bathroom. 1st plumber wanted to tear the walls out on 2 floors to look for it, which was kitchen cabinets and tile counters. I see where that guy was coming from; make insurance pay for a remodel! But we just remodeled it. Took 5 more days to get a 2nd opinion, and I had shutoff valves and drain spigots in the basement, so plenty of time to experiment. Hauled a garden hose up through the window and proved it wasn't any of the outgoing paths, which also highlighted inherent plumber assumptions, this being a 1930 house with original cast iron drainage....NO, IT'S NOT THE DRAINAGE. More tests showed it had to be the cold incoming. Turns out the incoming copper turns to (good ole') Qest as it goes up through the chase, and there was a leak in one line that only showed through pressure testing. They just pulled new hot and cold lines to the upstairs and called it a day. The upstairs bathroom is still all Qest, and some amount of it is behind a plaster wall from sink to tub, so I think I'll just be using the shutoffs when leaving town overnight from now on.
Best,

Doug Williams
Electromagnetic Radiation Recorders

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JR.
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Re: Entropy

Post by JR. » Sat Aug 04, 2018 12:54 pm

emrr wrote:
Sat Aug 04, 2018 12:01 pm
I've already blocked the plumbing problem.....

Leak in the chase from basement to 2nd floor bathroom. 1st plumber wanted to tear the walls out on 2 floors to look for it, which was kitchen cabinets and tile counters. I see where that guy was coming from; make insurance pay for a remodel! But we just remodeled it. Took 5 more days to get a 2nd opinion, and I had shutoff valves and drain spigots in the basement, so plenty of time to experiment. Hauled a garden hose up through the window and proved it wasn't any of the outgoing paths, which also highlighted inherent plumber assumptions, this being a 1930 house with original cast iron drainage....NO, IT'S NOT THE DRAINAGE. More tests showed it had to be the cold incoming. Turns out the incoming copper turns to (good ole') Qest as it goes up through the chase, and there was a leak in one line that only showed through pressure testing. They just pulled new hot and cold lines to the upstairs and called it a day. The upstairs bathroom is still all Qest, and some amount of it is behind a plaster wall from sink to tub, so I think I'll just be using the shutoffs when leaving town overnight from now on.
Speaking from experience even small water leaks can lead to huge black mold problems. I had a leaky toilet that I did not nip in the bud...regrets.

I have a new plumbing issue that has me kind of stumped. I have isolated a stink in bathroom sink water to the hot water plumbing. Maybe a year plus ago I had a stink in the hot water heater that I corrected by turning up the heater thermostat. Now that stink has become resident in my bathroom sink hot water pipes... the bathtub hot water in same room is stink free...so stink is local to that sink, and only the hot water.

The brute force fix is just turn off the hot water under that sink.. It has a blending faucet so typical use gets both clean and stinky smelling water. I have already tried to cook it out by running full hot water but the water cools too much before it reaches that sink.... One last experiment is to turn off the cold under that sink when running full hot since I suspect the blending faucet doesn't completely shut down the cold, but stink is not in the last 1/2" (I think).

I need some way to suck clorox backwards through the hot water pipe... I might be able to turn off the whole house water valve and start draining the hot water tank to create some reverse flow... I need to think about that some more.

Good luck but nip all water leaks in the bud... I learned the hard way what happens if you don't. :oops:

JR

PS: I expect the biotics causing the stink came from the town water supply, and they periodically dose the water with chemicals. I know because the town water would kill my beer yeast. :lol: So cold water pipes have been disinfected, hot water pipes not all not yet. I suspect the town water chemical mitigation gets diluted in my water heater tank so loses effectivity.

[edit- ran some hot water through my stinky faucet after my post yardwork shower when hot water pipes should already be warm... After 10 minutes of hot water my meat thermometer ticked up to about 140'... that is marginal for killing the stink, IIRC the water heater thermostat was set higher than that to kill the stank. we'll see. /edit]

emrr
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Re: Entropy

Post by emrr » Sat Aug 04, 2018 9:34 pm

Wow, 140º is way up there. Reverse flowing bleach sounds on the surface like a good option.
Best,

Doug Williams
Electromagnetic Radiation Recorders

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mediatechnology
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Re: Entropy

Post by mediatechnology » Sat Aug 04, 2018 10:31 pm

In the repair versus dispose category I chose repair of my lightweight wood-handle Ames lopper and 1950s era wheelbarrow.

The original Oak handles had worn on the lopper. Replacements were only about $6 each vs $50 for a new lopper. So I changed them.
Now I need to sharpen it.
The modern Fiskars with metal handles are just too heavy for trail-clearing.

We've had an antique metal wheelbarrow that's had the wheels "about" to fall off since my brother was a kid. He's 70 now.
That wheel barrow has been noisy and on the property my entire life.
Rolling it about the yard made a huge rusty metal against metal creaking sound that I was afraid would wake up the baby next door if I used it.
$36 got me two new wheels and I can collect leaves and yard debris while running silently.
I rolled it around empty just to enjoy the silence.

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JR.
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Re: Entropy

Post by JR. » Sun Aug 05, 2018 10:31 am

mediatechnology wrote:
Sat Aug 04, 2018 10:31 pm
In the repair versus dispose category I chose repair of my lightweight wood-handle Ames lopper and 1950s era wheelbarrow.

The original Oak handles had worn on the lopper. Replacements were only about $6 each vs $50 for a new lopper. So I changed them.
Now I need to sharpen it.
The modern Fiskars with metal handles are just too heavy for trail-clearing.

We've had an antique metal wheelbarrow that's had the wheels "about" to fall off since my brother was a kid. He's 70 now.
That wheel barrow has been noisy and on the property my entire life.
Rolling it about the yard made a huge rusty metal against metal creaking sound that I was afraid would wake up the baby next door if I used it.
$36 got me two new wheels and I can collect leaves and yard debris while running silently.
I rolled it around empty just to enjoy the silence.
I never owned a new wheelbarrow. I have an old tired one that my next door neighbor was discarding after he bought himself a new one. I had to replace some of the wood understructure but it uses some common lumber sizes (2"x2" IIRC). The tire leaks but holds air long enough to do yard work. I used it just this week to hump around some heavy tree limbs I cut up. I literally used it to move tons of dirt around my yard over the years. I see no reason to replace it even though it has gotten even more ratty in the decade I have been beating it.

JR

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JR.
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Re: Entropy

Post by JR. » Sun Aug 05, 2018 10:42 am

emrr wrote:
Sat Aug 04, 2018 9:34 pm
Wow, 140º is way up there. Reverse flowing bleach sounds on the surface like a good option.
I don't want to jinx it by declaring victory too soon, but last night and again this morning I was able to brush my teeth with water that didn't smell bad. 8-)

I ran the hot water longer than the first time I tried this (set a timer for 10 minutes). Not to mention the pipes were already warmed up from my shower before I did this. 140' is the magic number to kill bacteria, and if I was measuring that crudely with my meat thermometer in the water coming out of my faucet, the pipes and water may have been even hotter where the smell was living. Now I can screw the aerator back on, because it wasn't the problem this time.

I will leave the cold water turned off under the sink for a while just to see if it stays clean smelling. From time to time I can smell my (cold) tap water, the joys of living in a poor small town.

JR

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mediatechnology
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Old Water

Post by mediatechnology » Sun Aug 05, 2018 11:51 am

In Plano they had these huge watering restrictions during the last drought.
They stored a lot of water.
By winter, they were begging people to use water because it was getting too old.

Dallas water is relatively clean depending on the month but smells very bleachy.
We drink bottled water for drinking water and use filtered water for our coffee and cooking.

Gold
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Re: Entropy

Post by Gold » Sun Aug 05, 2018 12:57 pm

In Brooklyn I see beautiful cast iron benches with rotted slats in the trash all the time. I can't believe people throw them away when all they need are new slats. I have too many projects at the moment to start collecting those. I can't imagine it would take more than a couple of hours to install new slats that were cut to width. They only need a couple of holes for carridge bolts and to be cut to length.

Next trip we will move the cooking setup from the sleeping shed to the cooking shed. Then put the Craig's List special couch in the sleeping shed. At that point we may want to relocate the wood stove. It hasn't been installed yet so it's easy if we want to. Then I can build the staircase to the sleeping loft. Now we use a step ladder. It's okay but we end up being the doggie elevator. We are getting another puppy on August 30th which is exciting.

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JR.
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Re: Entropy

Post by JR. » Sun Aug 05, 2018 1:06 pm

Gold wrote:
Sun Aug 05, 2018 12:57 pm
In Brooklyn I see beautiful cast iron benches with rotted slats in the trash all the time. I can't believe people throw them away when all they need are new slats. I have too many projects at the moment to start collecting those. I can't imagine it would take more than a couple of hours to install new slats that were cut to width. They only need a couple of holes for carridge bolts and to be cut to length.
My old neighbor from across the street (RIP) repaired/rebuilt several of those cast iron bench ends.. IIRC they used relatively standard wood slats.

JR
Next trip we will move the cooking setup from the sleeping shed to the cooking shed. Then put the Craig's List special couch in the sleeping shed. At that point we may want to relocate the wood stove. It hasn't been installed yet so it's easy if we want to. Then I can build the staircase to the sleeping loft. Now we use a step ladder. It's okay but we end up being the doggie elevator. We are getting another puppy on August 30th which is exciting.

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