Is this green or just silly?

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JR.
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Is this green or just silly?

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I recently became more aware of my water usage after my water main feed pipe sprung a leak and dumped some 30k gallons into my ground. I have an under sink RO water filter to make clean enough water for my beer brewing habit... My local tap water has enough added chemicals that it kills the beer yeast and buying gallons of bottled water to make beer gets expensive and cumbersome.

My RO filter has a bypass line that back flushes the filter and keeps it happy, but this dumps tens of gallons a water down the drain a day... I figured if I could capture this bypass water and feed it into my toiled tank, I could at least use it to flush my privy...

Well 50' of 1/4" tubing later i am now getting a free flush every couple hours... I noticed that just letting the tank over run into the tank overflow tube is not as water tight as the rest of the toilet tank and was dripping drops of water on the floor when the tank was topped up to the overflow tube. My revised design now has the float arm connected to the flush valve so I can regulate the tank level lower than the overflow tube...

This is either very green, or I am just channeling my inner Rube Goldberg...

I can always just tear it out If i don't like it, And I can turn the normal feed back on to flush more frequently, while I'd need to tweak the alternate float level mechanism so I don't lift the flush valve with the float before the normal path float valve turns off... that wouldn't save water at all... :lol:

JR
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JR.
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Re: Is this green or just silly?

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As usual, life is never simple and predictable....

My original mechanical linkage between the float and flush valve was a couple cable ties, looped together and apparently they stretched out over night, and it rose to the overflow tube again. I have replaced the stretching cable ties with some more rigid chain, so now that won't change.

Last night I discovered a new related phenomenon. I was hearing a sound, a low pitched tone coming from the toilet, when the tank was full enough to be leaking water through the flush valve... Jiggling the handle stopped the noise, but this is interesting. I guess I could consider this a feature, an audible indication of when the tank is full and ready to flush again. :lol:

I'm not sure whether this tank level loop is a mechanical servo or simple shunt regulator, but it works... I set the chain length so the float/flush valve threshold is higher than the primary float valve level cut off so I can use the main water supply if desired by just turning it back on and not have to worry about my parallel system draining the tank.

JR
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Re: Is this green or just silly?

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After much speculation and even discussion with people smarter than I am, it was unclear what exactly was energy storage medium in my oscillating flapper valve. I suspect a surface wave at the top of the toilet tank as the float bobbed up and down at roughly 100Hz... was storing and recovering energy from the mass of the volume of water displaced. Note: I could not see a standing wave.

I experimented and added a rubber band in series with the chain linkage between the float and flapper valve and this suppresses the oscillation (probably shifts the natural frequency away from resonance). While not a permanent solution, it is a useful insight, and finally silent.

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Re: Is this green or just silly?

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That would be relatively easy for you or me, but i like to KISS and use conventional technology whenever possible.

I could make it work with a tee fitting that allows me to combine the cold water feed and the RO bypass feed together before sending to the float valve assy.

BTW I took my victory lap too soon. lat last night I heard it humming again... (it must not know the words).

How do I make mechanical hysteresis with my simple float chain/rubber band link to the flapper valve ?

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Re: Is this green or just silly?

Post by JR. »

raf wrote:Mechanical hysterisis = dashpot or resistance clutch and linkages.
Electrical hysterisis = PID loop (actually PI since you won't use the derivative term here, maybe for chorine gas injection, but not here). A lot of times PID is way overkill especially when a simple on-delay will do.
Not sure how to get positive feedback mechanically...
Don't tee the sources, you could have backfeed into the freshwater system if there is a momentary low pressure condition in the muni system with a slightly plugged filter.
I would have cut off valves in line with both before the tee.. so they would not be connected to each other, just feed the toilet float valve one at a time.

JR
I was half kidding about the PLC solution, but here I have that junk laying around in piles waiting for parts recipients... Well everything except level probes, those things are spendy at nearly a grand each! Don't keep spares of those, can't convince my customers to either...

In my washing machine gray-water capture I used 2 float switches and some good old relay logic to control the sump pump...
Tried to justify a PLC and probe, but I had the float switches left over from my dad's well drilling and pump biz after he passed.

Speed Queen Rules absolute! Maytag schmaytag....
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Re: Is this green or just silly?

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In my GREEN theme, I am just nearing the end of my first heating season since i replaced my in-wall air conditioner with dual purpose heat pump. I use built in timer to turn it completely off at night and warm up in the morning before I get up.

tracking my electricity usage vs year earlier it looks like 25% monthly saving. Better than a sharp stick in the eye. But I am not seeing anywhere near the difference between pure resistance and heat pump, so I have other significant electricity usage, I can still improve.

Since I am still using the old school in-wall radiant heater to heat my back bedroom, I left it on 24x7 at a low but not too cold setting, and sleep under an electric blanket to not freeze at night. Recently to get my bedroom on a time of day usage at least, I rigged up an old prototype drum tuner PCB with microprocessor to a few diodes in series to detect temperature, and use one micro output line to drive an opto triac, for isolation, that then drives a 16A triac to switch a small 800W auxiliary heater I had laying around.

After more software coding that I want to admit, I now have a precision thermostat (well it can measure precisely while I can't swear to how well I have it calibrated. But using this temp information I can now program in temperature targets 24 hours a day in 15 minute buckets. I have to resist wasting more time on improving the software but it has been working since the weekend. The first thing that surprised me was how cold my bedroom gets during the daytime with the heat completely off... Well lower than 60' according to my crude calibration. But I heat it up to a toasty 67' or so by 11pm then ramp it down some, to be complete off again the next morning.

I need to look at connecting this smart programming to my in wall unit.. I may need more than the 16A triac?

Next I need to program my hot water heater, I might need to work up a 7 day timer for that since I only shower on days that I run.

Have you hugged your planet today?

JR
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