Re: Cyril Bateman Capacitor Sound Archive

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JR.
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Re: Cyril Bateman Capacitor Sound Website

Post by JR. » Mon Apr 11, 2011 12:14 pm

ricardo wrote: NPO/CG0 caps are what I would use unless exact values were required (eg in EQ circuits) In the early 80's at Calrec, when we realised how good they are compared to small polystyrenes, we replaced every single small poly from a 72 channel broadcast desk. This was on the first M-series desk; IMHO, the last of the great analogue desks.
I rather liked the polystyrene dielectric, while the parts weren't very compatible with modern manufacturing processes.

Was your preference for NPO/COG related to size and value accuracy, or something else?

JR
Don't only half-ass tune your drums. Visit https://circularscience.com to hear what properly "cleared" drums sound like.

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Re: Cyril Bateman Capacitor Sound Archive

Post by JR. » Mon Apr 11, 2011 12:34 pm

Wow, good stuff.. I only read a few, but it's nice to hear from a credible voice on the subject who backs up his words with data.

JR

PS: I was only guilty of one cap myth (that ESR is a single value).
Don't only half-ass tune your drums. Visit https://circularscience.com to hear what properly "cleared" drums sound like.

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Re: Cyril Bateman Capacitor Sound Website

Post by ricardo » Mon Apr 11, 2011 8:07 pm

I rather liked the polystyrene dielectric, while the parts weren't very compatible with modern manufacturing processes. Was your preference for NPO/COG related to size and value accuracy, or something else? JR
Calrec desks were all made to order for broadcast orgs. at the time, so no flow soldering etc. But NE5534 poly 22pFs for were forever dying.

What really clinched it for us was doing distribution curves for batches of polys & NPOs (CGO's hadn't been invented 8>D)

If you do a single batch distribution of values on a good 1% resistor, you'll find the curve is well under 0.1% for 2 std. devs. though the mean would not be within 0.1% of nominal.

Similarly for good NPOs. Not quite 0.1% for 2 std. devs. but good enough to do Line Inputs like T2 in

http://www.ka-electronics.com/images/SSL/ssl_82E01.pdf

which easily met BBC & IBA specs for CMR up to supersonic frequencies WITHOUT TRIMS. And more importantly, better practical CMR & RFI performance too. I remember breadboarding the 1st one after heated discussions with Ken Farrar and seeing the CM drop through the floor as my solder joints cooled down.

Small polystyrenes don't have this nice distribution. 1% polys are usually selected so have a +/- 1% flat top distribution.

This is all early 80's. We bought most stuff from FEC & RS in the UK so no Golden Pinnae stuff.

And the other thing we threw out was DIP sockets for OPAs. Makes me wonder about Golden Pinnae pontificating on sound of OPAs. Hmmm.... mm. Maybe I should sell DIP sockets hand carved by virgins from solid BS ....

I do have strong views on electrolytics though. I LIKE nice normal electrolytics (eg Panasonics) with correct voltage across them.

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Re: Cyril Bateman Capacitor Sound Archive

Post by ricardo » Mon Apr 11, 2011 8:13 pm

So more reliable, smaller, more accurate for the purpose, cheaper ... behave like capacitors should .... only thing missing is the "hand carved by virgins from Unobtainium" label.

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Re: Cyril Bateman Capacitor Sound Archive

Post by mediatechnology » Mon Apr 11, 2011 8:20 pm

only thing missing is the "hand carved by virgins from Unobtainium" label.
I'll have the art department start on a logo. ;)
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Re: Cyril Bateman Capacitor Sound Archive

Post by JR. » Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:35 am

ricardo wrote:So more reliable, smaller, more accurate for the purpose, cheaper ... behave like capacitors should .... only thing missing is the "hand carved by virgins from Unobtainium" label.
Thanks, that was my suspicion. Polystyrene manufacture always struck me as a low tech process. I toured one ceramic cap factory (in Mexico) and it was pretty highly automated (despite the low labor cost there) making very consistent parts. The Polystyrene's I've used over the decades always looked hand made.

For RF filters, assuming the poles are relatively high, and their use is mostly JIC, the dielectric shouldn't matter as much. Perhaps some audible IMD is possible from difficult interference.

Not very obvious but those 22pf compensation caps on 5534s are typically forming a pole in the open loop transfer function down at audible frequencies, but linearity of open loop transfer function "should" be of lesser impact unless running out of loop gain margin, which is not good practice.

JR
Don't only half-ass tune your drums. Visit https://circularscience.com to hear what properly "cleared" drums sound like.

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Re: Cyril Bateman Capacitor Sound Archive

Post by MIQ » Fri May 06, 2011 11:58 am

Wayne,

This is great! Thanks for sharing these. I've been searching for these articles for a while.

-MIKE

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Re: Cyril Bateman Capacitor Sound Archive

Post by mediatechnology » Fri May 06, 2011 2:35 pm

You're welcome Mike.

Thanks again to Peter V. who sent me the original jpgs from the WW series. Just about everytime I would find links to the originals they'd get broken.
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Re: Cyril Bateman "Speaker Amp Interaction" Unpublished Part 2

Post by mediatechnology » Wed Nov 27, 2019 4:45 pm

Other Bateman Articles:

November 27, 2019. Now includes Part 1 and the previously-unpublished Part 2 (begins page 16) courtesy of forum member Ian Hegglun. Ian was helping Cyril proof read the article but it was never published before Cyril died. Ian believes Cyril would have made part 2 available to the public if he could have. Thank you Ian for sending this important unpublished article by Cyril.

Bateman, Speaker Amp Interaction:
http://www.waynekirkwood.com/images/pdf ... action.pdf [5M]

(The new link is also included in the original post.)
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Re: Cyril Bateman Capacitor Sound Archive

Post by Gold » Sun Dec 01, 2019 1:50 pm

I plan on trying C0G ceramics in the Barry Porter Net EQ I’m starting in on. I haven’t heard of anyone using them in an EQ circuit. I hope they sound as clean as they look on paper.

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